Serving Internationally

Evelyn Archer-Taminger:

Welcome to Divcast, the podcast that gives you an inside look into the Duke Divinity School community. I'm Evelyn Archer-Taminger. I'm a current student here at Duke, and I'll be taking over this episode of the Divcast. Today, I am joined by three of my fellow classmates, Kyle Tremblay, Benjamin Crook, and Stephanie Hilton as they share memories and lessons they learned in their international field education placements.

I am here this afternoon joined with Stephanie Hilton. Stephanie, how are you doing today?

 

Stephanie Hilton:

I'm doing good, Evelyn. How are you?

 

EAT:

I'm doing pretty well. I'm so glad to get to talk to you, and I'm so excited to hear your journey and experiences that you've had in your international placement.

 

SH:

I was really looking for the intercultural formation. I had been introduced to a concept that the Duke field education office drew out. It's a concept of cultural humility, and I believe it originated with two researchers back in 1998 in an article about medical education. And, it was really introduced to us to adopt a posture of learning from another culture and learning from your environment.

It really stood out to me because I had never heard that rhetoric before. I had always heard cultural competence. And to be introduced to the word humility in place of competence was something that I really wanted to take into practice overseas, because I knew how much of a role that it could play in my formation and my identity and strengthening my faith and my way of life and not going into a culture or learning environment thinking that I have achieved, or I have arrived, some sort of competency.

But, I am just beginning. I'm just starting like a child. I have this environment to go in to that I have never been in before, and I have this opportunity to be trained by Duke Divinity and our office of field education in this concept and take this into this placement. I was really looking forward to that, because I had never traveled to Africa before. And so, I was not only in my mind a new Christian; because I had just come into the Catholic church. I had just received my confirmation into the Catholic church on Easter vigil, so that April.

 

EAT:

Wow.

 

SH:

So, we're looking at not even a few months before my international placement. For me to be able to receive the Eucharist and attend daily mass in another country and receive the Eucharist as a spiritually healing sacrament in another country and culture fully, I think that that just became very significant to me that I was walking into this experience.

I approached it in a very childlike way, in a childlike manner. You say, "Steph, you bring in this experience and you have this background." That's true, and that may have led me to my decision. But it's fun for me to think of myself as an adult with this education and life experience, yet I am going into the experience like a child ready to learn with humility.

 

EAT:

I love that description, humility of a child. Honestly, I think that children have so much to teach us in their approach to life, that we don't have to stand atop any accomplishments that we had previously had and look down upon others. In fact, that's the opposite of what we should do, especially as people caring and working to fulfill Christ's mission in the world.

And so, in what other ways did you try to inform your mindset as you were preparing to go to Uganda and you were going through this big faith change as well?

 

SH:

I recognize that I'm a human being, that I have implicit biases. I judge. I have assumptions. And really all I can do is try to make friends with that and recognize when I am judging or I'm assuming.

I really wanted to go to Africa and enter into an experience and a placement where I was in a mutual learning experience. So, I was really trying to reflect on, what gifts are present in me? What can I draw out that the Holy Spirit has given me and give to this environment? But also, how can I have a posture and approach where I'm drawing out gifts in the children and the priests and the administrators and the catechist and everyone else that I'm meeting in my day-to-day interactions or working with or having meetings with in this parish and in the school systems where I was navigating and working?

I think that that was my main intent and goal. It's how can I identify opportunities to learn from everyone around me and this be mutual so they're also able to benefit from the gift of giving and I am able to draw that out of them and let them know that their presence and their gifts are equally transformative for me?

 

EAT:

Exactly. There's no hierarchy or superiority that comes into it. Yeah. Wow.

And so, with this mindset going in, an excellent mindset by the way, what was some of your initial experience when you came to Uganda? And would you tell us a little bit about the organization that you served, the parish that you were at and its role in the community?

 

SH:

Sure. Well, my initial impressions of the setting were right away smiles all around, very welcoming, very curious. The adults in the placements were just as curious and welcoming and enthusiastic as the children. I didn't really see much of a difference there. Everyone was just very receptive to our presence in this parish.

One of the interesting facets of this placement was we were able to have ministerial experiences where we attended daily mass. There were tasks and duties where we were able to participate in the mass. Sometimes the mass was in the cathedral at the parish, and sometimes we would mobilize with the priests and go out in the community where community members would host mass in their homes. That was a new concept and something brand new to me that this parish provided.

One of the priests, he would go out in the community multiple times a week to provide these daily masses, and I was able to accompany him to those experiences. That was very meaningful for me.

Something else that we were able to do in this placement was the Lady of Fatima doesn't just have a cathedral. It has a primary school and a secondary school. It also is affiliated with a village that is located several miles outside of the cathedral, a village called Chekube, which is a very rural area. So, we were able to work in a primary and a secondary school, as well as a more rural school in a different area, which I believe having that exposure to the school systems that are affiliated with the Catholic church was very unique.

As students supervised in this placement, we were involved in teaching physical education classes to the primary schools. So, that would be for American school system, grade two, three, and four where we were teaching physical education. And at the secondary school, we taught religious education and library skills.

 

EAT:

Oh, wow, very different.

 

SH:

Yes. So, with the younger population of children at the primary school, we would do more fun things and co-lead the classes with the teachers. We would do arts and crafts, teach English. We did a class where we taught news and current events, and we talked about news with the kids in the class.

 

EAT:

Oh, wow.

 

SH:

Again, physical education. And then with the secondary school, we were doing the religious education and Bible study classes.

EAT:

That's so incredible. It sounds like you had a lot of chances to really be personally connected with the community. Were there any instances where you felt particularly bonded with somebody that you met there or instances where you really made a strong connection with somebody?

 

SH:

Sure. I would say that a very significant experience that I had right on the first day that I was there was sharing meals with the four native Catholic priests that lived in the same quarters. And so, we would eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. Most of the time, all four of the priests were available at this time, and we knew the times that we were eating. We were all able to come together around food for about an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. But sometimes, every once in a while, because of the nature of their duties, one priest may be out at a hospital or may be out in the community performing mass or may be preparing. But for the most part, we were all there at the same time, three times a day.

This pause in our duties and responsibilities and caring and ministry to be with one another and share food immediately created a connection with all of us, because here we were sharing our stories, we were talking about our lifestyles, we were sharing our day. Our conversations were very rich and spontaneous. Sometimes they would be very deep and theological and religious in nature. Sometimes it was just recounting our duties in caring for others. Sometimes it was discussing our own spiritual disciplines and self-care practices as spiritual care providers. What are we doing in our spiritual care for ourselves? What does our prayer life look like, and how are we maintaining that?

The priests would also share books and resources. A conversation would spark over a meal, and later there would be a book on the table for me that evening. Or they would provide something for me that had them recognize that I'm there to learn and I had a question that was left unanswered or something that I wanted to explore deeper or learn more about, whether it was the life of a saint, or just where did this prayer come from, what is the history of this practice or this tradition? Sometimes it was culturally based, like something on the Ugandan martyrs and how Christianity came to be in Uganda. And sometimes it was Christianity or the Catholic church as a whole. So, it was all these different ways. And this sharing of meals with the priests really drew me into a relationship with each of them that was very unique.

 

EAT:

It sounds like these priests really valued your education and your journey and where your passions lied?

 

 

 

SH:

They did. And what was incredible is I developed a unique kind of student, ministerial, intern, supervisee relationship with each priest that was very unique because each priest had unique gifts, unique spiritual gifts themselves. For example, one of the priests was very theological; really deepened my catechism, my knowledge of the Catholic faith and tradition and areas in that way. Another priest was helping me understand community issues, would really draw out the stories of the community to me in ways that was helping me understand some of the challenges that the local community members were facing and what that looks like and how the priests are responding and how the church responds to alleviate those barriers and meet the spiritual needs of the community.

But there was a lot of joy, a lot of laughter, a lot of deep conversations ranging from different theological topics to also just everyday types of things that were coming up. So, it was just a very rich experience.

 

EAT:

Kyle, how are you doing today?

 

Kyle Tremblay:

I'm doing pretty great. So, I am a third-year Master of Divinity student. I'm in my last two months of this master’s program, which is very exciting. I am right now pursuing ordination in the United Methodist church back in my home conference in Houston, Texas, so the Texas conference of the church, where I feel called to lead a parish ministry that really is deeply involved and committed to working in the community for social justice issues, for community empowerment in whatever form that takes.

 

EAT:

Will you tell me a little bit-

Would you remind me of the name of the organization you were serving?

 

KT:

It's Casa del Migrante, house of migrants.

It's part of the Scalabrinian order. It is a house that is in a network of similar houses across the world where they are dedicated to helping migrant peoples. And so, there are other Casas in Ciudad Juárez, a couple in Guatemala, some more in Southeast Asia, really all over the world. But the one in Tijuana is one of the biggest and most active, being right on a major port of entry into the United States.

 

 

EAT:

What were some of the major contributions that Casa del Migrante did for those they were serving?

 

KT:

It was really cool. On the hierarchy of needs thing, that little pyramid thing, not only did they address the very base needs of, okay, they provide shelter and clothes and food and all this other stuff, but then they go a step further in order to really prepare some of the migrants for more longer-term success. They have on staff immigration lawyers. They have social workers. They have a couple psychologists on staff to help with any needs that might arise. They have a person who's-how do I describe it?-just someone to help them get jobs while they're waiting in Tijuana.

And then, this was... It happened midway through while I was there. There was a need for housing for children, which it typically was just a house for adult men. But once there was this need for children, it also became a school. They offer classes on trade. They offered electrician classes. I know there's a couple of the men who I worked with who they have, not an associate’s degree, but the equivalent to that and are a certified electrician now. And so, that's what they do. They meet a very wide variety of needs.

 

EAT:

It sounds like Casa del Migrante really focused on the holistic person and what they would need after going through so much. And so, my question is in this huge whirlwind of all these incredible things that this organization is doing, where did you fit in? What was a typical day for you while you were working in Tijuana?

 

KT:

I helped with all the meals. We had 140 men in there at most times. And so, that means they provide breakfast and dinner. A lot of the days I'd be helping prep for that by chopping insane amount of tomatoes, potatoes, onions, chilies. I helped out with laundry with, again, 150 men. Got to do that. I was just basically there.

 

EAT:

Laundry, yeah. That's lots of laundry.

 

KT:

Me and other volunteers who weren't trained professionals like social workers, lawyers, or psychiatrists, we were logistic volunteers is how I like to see it as, just because that's how I helped out a lot. I did help out when the "school" opened. I helped teach math, which is my undergrad... I say math. It's very simple, like for-

 

EAT:

Really?

 

KT:

... eight, nine, 10-year-olds, and so addition and maybe some division if they're older kids. It wasn't super difficult, but it was like, oh wow, I know math. This is a thing that I'm good at. So, not math, but I have a degree in computer science and a minor in math.

 

EAT:

Did you get your degree in math?

 

KT:

I finally got to put my degree to work after three years of graduating.

 

EAT:

Hey, man, whether it's math or whether it's cooking or doing laundry, it's all important work even if it's not terribly glamorous.

 

KT:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Exactly.

 

EAT:

Were there any other roles that you encompassed when you were there?

 

 

KT:

Also, how many people there are that live in the house. The way they kept the house in order was if you were living there, you would occasionally have to do chores. And so, I was in charge of making sure each night and every morning the whole house gets cleaned. I was sometimes in charge... Just for security reasons we have a door that's locked, and we have to be the greeter to people as they're coming in.

The Casa also, they had connections with-I don't know who-the government of Tijuana or Mexico that when persons were deported from the United States, that very first night as soon as they were deported, they would take them to the Casa so they would have a room to stay for the night. And then, the next day they could figure out more things to do. Part of my work would be doing intake for just recording their information, helping get that all settled away.

I wore many hats. Anything that needed help, I was there.

 

EAT:

Well, Kyle, I have to ask, doing such impactful work such as receiving those who have been deported and teaching children, these are really, really impactful things to individuals' lives. Was there any moment that you can recall while you were working in Tijuana with Casa del Migrante that you felt passion spark in yourself? Was there any point where you thought, this is why this work is so important?

 

KT:

Yeah. There was a lot of those moments. A lot of those moments too where just the weight of it all came crashing down with just... There was countless men who I met who told me how they just got deported and they have not lived in Mexico since they were three, since they were four. They have a family back in the United States. Hearing that and just having to be... There's nothing I can do. I am very powerless in that situation to do anything to help them in any way other than just be there, listen, and sort of just walk with them as they're going through this, because no words I can say are going to make it better. And so, there was many, many moments where just the- extreme weight of everything hit me.

 

EAT:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), and the magnitude of it as well. I think many times in ministry we feel like ants being squashed. Talking about connecting with these men who you worked with, were there any people who you found connection with even beyond the language barrier?

 

KT:

Yeah. Especially with the language barrier, one of the connections that sticks out to me was with a lot of the kids who came. Because the way that Casa works is everyone in the house, all the adults, during the day they are required to leave the house. Most of them have temporary jobs, and that's where they go. But with kids, when we took them in, they aren't going to leave. And so, I spent a lot of time over that summer with them doing... One funny thing that they associated me at one point with, they had a jump rope. Loved doing jump rope in this big, open lobby. My Spanish was very poor. They would laugh at me constantly for not knowing very basic things. Even with that barrier though, I was able to, I think, connect with them and make the day they were staying in there, I hope, a little bit better.

There were so many times too were once their family had decided like, "Okay, we are going to leave the house," for whatever reason, whether it's to find a more permanent place to be living in Tijuana, whether it's to return home to Honduras, Guatemala, any of those countries, those moments when you're saying goodbye, it's like, man, I don't even know if 50% of the conversations I had with you they made sense to you at all. But even that goodbye, was just like it hurt so much.

 

 

EAT:

That leads me to ask, Kyle, with these kids who you had such a connection with, Spanish or no Spanish, say they were listening to this podcast right now. If you had a chance to talk to them, what would you say to them?

 

KT:

Honestly, first and foremost, it's like - I'd want to know that they are safe and okay, because part of the big thing about the goodbyes was sometimes they and their family might be going off to... There's many different scenarios. I know one family who they had to return home to El Salvador after waiting for a while, because they couldn't wait in the asylum line and they had to return to their family, but the original reason they left was because a lot of the gang violence in El Salvador was targeting them. And so, just seeing them go knowing they are having to return to this very real threat of harm on them and their family's life is just extremely difficult.

There was one conversation I remember distinctly with a father who had been in the Casa for probably a month. He was talking about what they were going to do. The asylum process especially back in 2018 was extremely backed up. You might wait six months for the very first interview. And then, there's another however much more of waiting. And then, even once you've done a year, a year and a half of waiting, there's a high chance that you'll be rejected.

 

EAT:

Oh my goodness.

 

KT:

And so, this is a reality a lot of these families and these men, these fathers had to deal with. I was talking to this one father. He was like, "We can't return home. We're going to be killed if we do that." And so, he was talking about they were going to cross without documents. And in Tijuana in that area east of California is one of the most deadly stretches of desert that is often used for people crossing. When I heard that, I can't even imagine the decision that he had to go through that this is now the best option for him and his kid where... Yeah, exactly. Going home is a death sentence.

 

EAT:

No alternative.

 

KT:

Staying there is impossible. And so, you're deciding to put your child through this because this is the best option for you and him is just, my God.

That is a very long-winded way of saying just I want to know if they're okay, the first thing I'd ask, just because there was many times directly after and even now where I remember some of these kids and their families, and I just have no idea where they are or what they've gone through since then.

 

EAT:

Do you think about them often, Kyle?

 

KT:

I have. When me and Ben, the other Duke student who was there, were getting ready to leave, the teachers had them, as part of their art time or just arts and crafts free time for the kids, do a lot of drawings and colorings to give them to us.

Over my bed, I have hanging up, pinned up with little pins, a lot of the things. They wrote their names, and it makes me smile because it's very cute. Seeing they write their names and draw what they think I look like and what we were doing together, I'd say it's a very often reminder that is bittersweet, I would say is the biggest thing, just because it is tough memories. But then, it's also reminding me of what sort of work I can really do in ministry, what it means to, I guess, be the hands and feet of Christ in the sense of I can do good work. God is calling me to work with the oppressed, calling me to work with the marginalized, the poor, the migrant, and yeah.

 

EAT:

My guest is Benjamin Crook. How are you doing, Benjamin?

 

 

Benjamin Crook:

Hey. Hi, Evelyn. I'm doing well.

When we are talking about the international placements, I think the few months leading up to it, just in prayer I was just sensing a pull to go. I'd been following what had been going on at the border, and this is 2018, 2019, the height of the Trump-era immigration stuff with rampant ICE deportations and a refugee crisis from South and Central America coming up and parts of West Africa. I saw that as an opportunity. Right when I saw the email like, oh, this is one of the spots, I was like, wow, that sounds really compelling to me. Yeah, I don't know. I think it just really caught my attention as a site for possibility, for living into that conviction I have.

 

EAT:

And you served in Tijuana, Mexico in summer of 2019, correct?

 

BC:

Right, yeah. Sorry. Tijuana, La Casa del Migrante in summer of 2019.

 

EAT:

So, this was a very pertinent, timely location. What was your initial reaction when you found out that you had been placed in Tijuana?

 

BC:

I think my initial reaction was excitement. I was so excited to be in that context at that time. I was like, wow, this is going to be really, I think, intense and impactful, maybe really beautiful. So, I was excited.

 

EAT:

Knowing where you were going, how did you prepare yourself for serving in Tijuana? Did you attend Spanish classes, or in what ways did you mentally prepare yourself?

 

BC:

I didn't do Spanish classes. But for anyone listening who's going to a Spanish-speaking country, you should do Spanish classes. That would be helpful. Right, yeah. If I could do it over, I would have done that.

EAT:

This will be a lesson for all the listeners.

 

BC:

But I think to prepare I-I don't know how to put it. It was a spiritual preparation. There's not much you can do. You don't know what it's like until you're there. And in some sense, your expectations can get in the way of that- if you're already constructing this image of what you think it's going to be. And so, I think for me a lot of the preparation was trying to cultivate just openness in myself and in my own spirit and body for like, all right, this is going to be what it's going to be, and I don't know what that is.

 

EAT:

Absolutely. And I think that that's true for ministry, in general, that it is so unpredictable. You can prepare as much as you can, but you're never truly prepared for the day to day, because there's just so much in the air; up in the air, I mean.

Wow. So Benjamin, you were sent down to Tijuana. Can you walk me through what was it like, I will say, the first week of you being there? Was there anything that surprised you, or any ways that you realized that there were areas of growth that needed to happen? What was it like the first few days, the first week that you were there?

 

BC:

Oh, man. Let me think back. So, the first week had a lot of things for me. Emotionally, I think it was frustrating, for one. Your inadequacies just become so apparent when you're in a foreign or just different context than what you're used to. Obviously, whether that's language or the culture sensibilities, when you bump up against that, I think, and you're hoping to traverse those boundaries and you can't in the way that you wanted to, for me that provoked frustration. I was just like, man, I want to connect in ways that I'm not able to. I'm wanting to do it this way, and I'm wanting to use my gifts here, and I can't. I think frustration was a part of it.

 

EAT:

Really? Can you tell us more about that?

BC:

But on the other side too, I think the first week, honestly, it was heart-wrenching. I think it broke me, honestly. Now that I think back, I remember talking with Kyle who also went down there with me from Duke. Yeah, exactly.

 

EAT:

Kyle Tremblay, yeah.

 

BC:

I think it was the first month, the whole first month, I cried every day. I didn't tell anybody except Kyle. There would just be little moments every day where I'd go up to my bathroom and just lean against the door and cry, probably every day for the first month. Especially that first week, I think, being proximate and present to just situations and people's stories that are unspeakably traumatic...

 

EAT:

You guys were working with folks who had recently been deported from the U.S., correct?

 

BC:

Right.

 

EAT:

You were helping to receive them on the border? Migrants?

 

BC:

It was a really interesting hub where on the one hand it's people who were recently deported, as recent as the morning of or the night before, and then they would get dropped off after being processed by immigration. They'd get dropped off at the place we were at. And then on the other hand, you had folks who would just drop in who had literally walked with their families from Central America and had made it. Yeah, exactly. It was both.

You had folks who were deported and folks who were coming up from South.

 

EAT:

And so, in being in this place of receiving people who had been deported and also supporting people who were migrants, did that give more context as to how big this immigration injustice really is?

 

BC:

Yeah. Wait, sorry. Can you rephrase that question? That's okay.

 

EAT:

Yeah, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, seeing the individuals and the families who were migrating and who had recently been deported, did that give you more insight and a personal insight into just how big the immigration injustice in America and in Latin America really is?

 

 

BC:

Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, I don't know if it necessarily widened the scope, but in a way it just became a lot more intimate. Because you can know about things in an intellectual way, and you can read books and you can watch the news and you can be totally informed in one way, but it's different when you're with people. I think it's something different when you're sharing a bag of hot Cheetos and hearing the story of these real people.

So yeah, I think it deepened it, actually. I think it deepened my understanding of, wow, this is an incredibly expansive and wide-reaching issue that also touches the lives of millions and millions of people on the ground, and I have this weird, cool little opportunity to be in those people's lives for a little bit.

 

EAT:

Thanks for listening to Divcast. Be sure to subscribe to our feed, available anywhere you find podcasts. You can send us questions or comments by emailing Divcast@div.duke.edu. Our executive producer is Morgan Hendrix, sound design by Brandon Holmes, editing help provided by Kinsley Whitworth, research and media support was by Brooklynn Reardon, M.Div 2022. Special thanks to regular host Todd Maberry for bringing me on to host these episodes. Thanks for listening. Please join us again at the Divcast.