Serving in Pandemic Times

Divcast Series 3 Episode Serving in Pandemic Times Transcript

 

Evelyn Archer-Taminger:

Welcome to Divcast, the podcast that gives you an inside look into the Duke Divinity School community. I'm Evelyn Archer-Taminger, I'm a current student here at Duke and I'll be taking over this episode of the Divcast. Today, I'm joined by four of my incredible classmates, Gilbert Lawrence Barney, Bria Rochelle, Kiana Hertough, and Shawn Klein, as they share how the COVID-19 pandemic affected their work and ministry to others.

 

Bria Rochelle:

I'm Bria Rochelle, I'm a third year in the MDiv program here at Duke Divinity School. It feels weird to be saying that because I feel like I just got here yesterday, but I'll be heading out in May, and yeah, that feels quite strange, especially considering this last year, it feels it all got pushed together. But yeah, this past summer of 2020, I served at Broadway United Methodist Church in Indianapolis, Indiana, as the pastoral intern. And that was my introduction into ministry during the time of COVID.

 

EAT:

What an introduction.

 

BR:

Yes. Definitely an interesting time to be in ministry and to be in faith community. And I think since I've been at Duke Div, which this whole time has been a moment of discernment and just figuring out what God has been calling me in ministry. And since I've been at Duke Div, I've developed passions for social justice and racial justice, and learning about these different things and where the church comes into play with these things.

And so that's where I'm feeling God calling me back to ministry in the United Methodist Church, and in conjunction with the United Methodist Church to think through these things and to teach them to learn the ways that the church can help in our calls to justice, in our calls to be liberator's in the world.

So for a good amount of the end of the semester, I had been preparing to be able to go to Indianapolis, but then closer to when the internship started, we got the notification that we would not be going anywhere or we were advised against leaving where we were at home to go to our placements. So I stuck around in Alabama for the duration of my internship in Indianapolis.

 

EAT:

Was there any time difference?

 

BR:

Yes. No, wait, no, I'm sorry. No, there was not. We were on, wait, hold on. Sorry, I think there might've been maybe an hour’s time difference,

 

EAT:

Right. An hour could be a big thing, I've tried to call family members at an hour time difference, and both of us are one or two or maybe three hours off somehow.

 

BR:

Right. Yeah. And it was really funny because Kiana, my internship partner, she was in California, so she had a huge time difference. So we were all trying to coordinate with her time and then my time, and then Broadway's time to try to make meetings happen and then things like that.

 

EAT:

We're meeting at 1:00 PM EST, 2:00 PM CE, 3:00 PM PST, and so you-

 

BR:

Broadway did an incredible, incredible job of having our pastor, we were actually in the midst of a pastoral transition.

 

EAT:

Oh, wow. Big changes.

 

BR:

Yeah. The pastor who had been the pastor there for 15 plus years, had given Kiana and I a list of people to connect with while we were interning there. And so we were actually able to make a spreadsheet and do all the things, and we did a lot of one-on-one Zooms or group Zoom meetings with a bunch of different people from the church. And so that was a huge way that we were able to meet people without actually physically being there. The church had an after service, like coffee and chat hour where you did watch the service when it uploaded to YouTube.

And immediately following that, there was a big group Zoom where everybody in the church would get together and just chat with each other and that worked well, it worked fine. But it was definitely very, very beneficial to have one-on-one Zooms with a lot of people, and for certain folks, we set up Zooms that were recurring, and so there were certain people that we met with every week or every few weeks just to build a better connection and get to know people a little bit more.

 

EAT:

And it sounds like those one-on-one Zooms are not only super important for building connections, especially when you and Kiana had come into this church community, and at any point an intern can struggle to form a connection, even when they're not states away and looking through a computer screen. Those individual times and that personalized use was Zoom, did that also help with y ‘all’s giving of pastoral care to the community?

 

BR:

Yeah. Definitely. I think definitely, in a certain sense it did, specifically for the meetings that we had with people regularly. There was one woman in particular that Kiana and I both just connected with very deeply, and honestly, it felt like a lot of the time, she was blessing us with encouragement and just so much graciousness and thanksgiving. She's one of those people you're just like, the spirit of God is with you and you were shining through it.

 

EAT:

Wow.

 

BR:

So yeah, I think that was definitely a place of us being able to provide spiritual care as much as we could, but for me, it was really a lot of being able to get that spiritual care back. And we were able to write a few letters to some members who didn't do technology, have technology, and we were able to do some correspondence back and forth with them.

 

EAT:

Even old school connection is still connection.

 

BR:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)

 

EAT:

You mentioned this really unique connection that you had with a particular church member and how she was spiritually feeding you as you guys were feeding her, and on that note, what were some ways that you engaged in your own personal spiritual care, and even just self-care during these really isolating and really rough sad times of a pandemic?

 

BR:

Yeah. So I had taken up listening to sermons as I ran because after a month inside, I was like, okay, I need to-

 

EAT:

Oh, girl.

 

BR:

... To go outside-

 

EAT:

Oh my God. You're speaking my language.

 

BR:

... And actually do something. And I was like, but I also need something to stimulate my brain and just my spirit, because doing services online, it brings something but it doesn't always give you, well, I can speak for myself, it didn't always give me what I needed. But I'd also, it piqued my interest and be like, okay, I can actually listen to a lot of other people speaking and a lot of other different sermons and a lot of different podcasts and things like that.

And so I started to utilize the free time that I had to go on runs, and on those runs, I would listen to sermons and specifically sermons by black women because I hadn't experienced as much of that, the pastor at Southeast Raleigh Table was a black woman, but for myself as a black woman, I had not really been exposed to black female ministers in my ministry experience. And so I really took that time to dive in and discover some incredible black women pastors and listen to their sermons and listen to their podcasts.

And that was a really, really great way that I kept my spirits up, and I really, really, really took that summer to develop, to think about who I thought of myself as a minister, as a pastor and as a theologian, and was able to tap into that deep history, and just all of the scholarship and so many different things from not even just black female pastors, but professors and I started listening to lectures and who would have thought, after being done…

 

EAT:

Oh my God.

 

BR:

…with the semester of school, you want to listen to a lecture voluntarily, but I found several lectures on some really, really interesting things. And so I started to make that a part of my weekly routine and it really just fed me deeply, it fed me deeply.

 

EAT:

I am joined by Kiana Hertogh.

 

Kiana Hertogh:

I am a second year Div student, so wrapping up my almost, this is going to be my fourth semester after I finished the spring piece. And I am placed at a church plant called Six:Eight Church in Durham right now, I'm with Dorrell Briscoe, and he and his wife, Tracy, planted this church only 10 weeks before the pandemic hit.

 

EAT:

Wow.

 

KH:

Yeah. They were only around for those 10 weeks before it got shut down, meeting in the Hayti Center before the pandemic. And I had just been challenged and I had been feeling a tug towards taking a break after my MDiv and just serving the local church and possibly with Six:Eight doing some sort of justice work also just because that's also a big part of Six:Eight’s mission. So trying to discern that, feeling a lot of different directions, but that's where I am right now.

 

EAT:

It sounds like a lot of discernment and I'm sure it's a lot of very heavy mental and spiritual digging that you're doing with yourself to see if God is nudging you in this direction. And it's just amazing sometimes to hear how unexpected God works, even if we tell ourselves our whole lives that we're going to do one thing, God can come in and be, uh, ya know, but actually. Kiana, I'd love to hear about you working at this church plant and being with this community, how was that a unique experience for you as an intern to begin with, working with this very new community and how did your supervisors inspire you?

 

KH:

Right. Well, just off the bat, I'm so inspired by my supervisor Dorrell, he has his D.Min. from the Divinity School, Duke.

 

EAT:

Nice.

 

KH:

So we have that connection, but he really just made this church because he sensed God was calling him to create something new, and his experience as a black man serving in these non-denominational evangelical churches, not super feeling like he had his place, and so feeling called with his wife to plant Six:Eight here has really showed me that I don't need to fit into any molds, the church doesn't need to fit into any molds and it's really just been this creative project for him that he's invited me into. And being in a pandemic has just thrown a wrench into, I think, what he thought it would be like, what I thought it would be like.

And it's really been this super creative process where we are still figuring out what ministry looks like in this context. And even now, there's three of us on staff, including me and Dorrell, and we're meeting in the next couple of weeks to really flush out like, okay, what are our goals? What do we want to accomplish? And what are the strategies that we are going to implement so that we can achieve those goals? So it's really in this beginning stage, we're crafting the church, what we want the church to be about. And I think it's a really big blessing to be a part of that creative process for sure.

 

EAT:

I think creative and creativity is the name of the game, honestly. Hearing what you're saying about this church plant and in all church plants, new religious groups and spiritual communities, there's so much ingenuity that comes into it and breaking through what all of us have seen, what is church? What is this Christian community? And Six:Eight Church has been really founded within this COVID-19 atmosphere, and so, did you begin working with Six:Eight in January of 2020? Or was it earlier on?

 

KH:

Yeah, it was in the fall of 2020. So I had attended a few times before I was placed, so when they were still meeting in person, early 2020 before it all happened, but I wasn't placed until this past August.

 

EAT:

Oh, okay. Okay. So Kiana, I have to ask you, how can you imagine, what anxieties do you think people who are running church plants and founding these new spiritual communities, what kinds of anxieties do you think they had going into COVID-19?

 

KH:

Oh, man. I honestly can't even imagine because I know that Dorell and Tracy had these big dreams and so much of it, I think too, is momentum. And they were just starting to get the momentum and watching this thing come to life and they were growing, and just to have that all stop, I think really, no one was prepared for was what was going to happen, but-

 

EAT:

Nobody.

 

KH:

Right, right. But to still be in that sort of infant stage of the church, I think was really hard, other churches who have been around for years and years, maybe they're more established, have a good giving base, all of those things, financially set, and you have this tie and really strong relationships with your congregation because you've been there so long, a new church plant doesn't have those things. So I've been amazed though in the midst of it, how well Dorrell and Tracy have attacked at all, and what I have gotten from conversations with them is not discouragement at all, but just ready to reevaluate and ready for whatever the next season, next stage is. I love them a lot.

 

EAT:

That's so amazing, and as an intern at Six:Eight Church, how have you seen Dorrell and Tracy use ingenuity and creativity to foster this community that's so new while we're not able to see each other face-to-face?

 

KH:

Right. So they were doing Zoom meetings, I believe every week in the summer. So that was a way for, I want to say they were midweek Zoom meetings and the whole congregation would be invited to those and they would all join in and just go around and check in with one another. And that mold into, in the fall, the approach was to have once a month gathering that would be outside, and we only had one of those before we were trying to keep track of the COVID numbers and everything, and we ended up only having one at the very beginning.

And there was about 15 people, I think, that were there. So that was a different, that was us trying to do the outdoor thing and still meet with a little bit as a community and then had to reevaluate again by going back online, not meeting in person at all. But we have done small groups and that's been a newer thing for us.

 

EAT:

Oh, really?

 

KH:

Yeah. But I would say, I think the stage we're in right now is really where the creative process is going to come into play because I think so far, like last year and in the fall we were trying to adapt and be like, okay, we have to survive. That was the goal and I think this year, this spring, 2021, now where our mindset is more so like, what new things can we do given our situation. So I think that the creative part is about to come.

 

EAT:

We have survived and now how do we thrive? It sounds like Six:Eight Church's leadership has a lot of, their priorities are very much of with people and with their health, it sounds like they're very conscientious on doing the right thing and making sure that folks stay healthy. A bit of a more theological question for you, Kiana, how do you feel our calling as Christians comes into play when it comes to following CDC guidelines and trying to keep other people safe, wearing masks, et cetera.

 

 

KH:

Right. Yeah. It's really interesting because I have people that are really close to me that even recently have been telling me, faith over fear, it doesn't matter, we don't have to wear masks and follow guidelines, and that's just a fear based approach. But really, the stance of what the leadership at Six:Eight has done is to communicate to their congregation, we're not meeting because we're afraid, fear is not why we are not meeting. Just because we're wearing masks and following guidelines doesn't mean we're afraid of this virus.

These are the things that we're doing because we want to love our neighbors, and that's why we are following these things. We're using discernment because we want to show our neighbors the love of Christ, and the love of Christ is selfless. So it doesn't matter if I am inconvenienced by a mask or I'm inconvenienced, they are inconvenienced by watching this dream of what they have the church would be, have to go online during a pandemic. But it's all something that we do because we're called to love our neighbors and die to ourselves and what we want, and what's convenient for us.

 

EAT:

Gilbert Lawrence Barney, Gill, how are you doing?

 

Gilbert Lawrence Barney:

I'm well. Well, I'm a second year student here at Duke Divinity School, so basically a year and a half away from graduation.

 

EAT:

Woo.

 

GLB:

Yeah, I'm excited about that. Duke is actually helping me out with ideas and strategies and things to implement for a church plant and for just a new transition from being a residential student not only back into the workforce, but back into a launching a location. I'm happy.

 

EAT:

And quite a transition that will be, I'm sure.

 

GLB:

Yeah.

 

EAT:

Do you feel supported by the Duke Divinity Community in that endeavor?

 

 

GLB:

Yes, I actually do. Yeah. I shouldn't say I actually do like it's a surprise, but it's actually a surprise at how much they're willing to help. I was expecting what you expect from any seminary school, they would encourage you and things of that nature, but Duke is putting together strategies and trying to give me a head start that I was not anticipating. So I'm grateful for that.

 

EAT:

Holy cow. That's really amazing and that's such a great experience. And would you mind letting us know a little bit about your field education experience? Where were you placed and, especially where were you working during COVID?

 

GLB:

Okay. Yeah, excuse me, during my first year when I applied for field study application to get placed somewhere, I told them that type of environment I would like to be in, and I even listed the type of church that I would really, really, really like to be involved in, as a church I've been following for a number of years. And pre-COVID, this what's funny about it, Pre-COVID, I actually got placed where I wanted to go.

 

EAT:

Really?

 

GLB:

Yeah. And then COVID hit, and where I was going to was in the Washington DC area. And then COVID hit and the church that I was going to be affiliated with, with all of our first COVID experiences with good education, they shut everything down, no one's going to be going anywhere outside of their normal environment, because we didn't know what was COVID, we didn't know what coronavirus was, how it was spreading, things of that nature, so they shut everything down.

 

EAT:

Yeah.

 

GLB:

So while I wasn't devastated, I was very much like, why? If you look at it on a micro level, my big headache is, I wasn't going to be going to the church plant that, the church location that I wanted to attend, when looking at it on a micro level, it's like, yes, not the biggest issue, with everything that has happened. So with that said though, I can assess that God was extremely faithful and everything I wanted to learn from the church that I was going to go to, I was privileged to learn at the church I was actually placed at.

And I was placed at a church called Mount Wright Missionary Baptist Church, and the pastor is a pastor Dewey Smith. And it was a great location, it was a location that is a historic location, it's in Hillsborough, North Carolina. And the pastor was amazing, he has a true pastor's heart and the things I was privileged to be involved with were mind blowing. He's currently working on a book where, he takes conversations from inmates on male and female or I should say, men and women on death row about their conversion stories and their theology around God while being in the predicament that they find themselves in.

 

EAT:

Incarcerated. Yeah.

 

GLB:

Yeah. And I was able to help him edit some of the book and read some of the letters that he received for the book, things that I would've never thought on my own. God placed me in at the table to be involved in such a project, so that amongst other things that I've learned through the virtual space and doing ministry virtually, that was the cream of the crop. So even in my disappointment that I didn't go to the location that I was assigned to originally, I still was blessed during my internship and I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was a great experience.

 

EAT:

I love talking to people who have gone through really surprising unpredictable situations, especially in the pandemic, because obviously none of us are glad that the pandemic is happening. It's a terrible, terrible thing but one thing that we can do is focus on gleaning whatever we can and unexpected lessons and joys that perhaps if we weren't put in that situation would not have happened. And so I think that that's a great example of that, that you got this incredible education from this man who seems to be doing really wonderful ministerial work with a lot of people that many other Christians would not want to give the time of day to.

 

GLB:

Yeah.

 

EAT:

So I want to take you back to around March, right when COVID was hitting, and what, we talked a little bit about the disappointment of not getting to go to DC to the church plant that you were originally assigned. How were you also nervous about the pandemic as a worship leader? What were you worried about losing in a virtual space, in a space where we are socially distanced and not together, as a worship leader?

 

 

GLB:

What I worried about missing, first of all, was fellowshipping with other Christians, and for the congregation members to get to know me on a personal level, to touch, feel, to laugh and speak, and each wasn't one another and things of that nature, those were things that I was worried about that I would end up missing. And while I couldn't get everything, we still were able during Bible study, virtual Bible studies, to laugh and talk and to get to know one another and things of that nature. So while it wasn't optimal, it still happened, it still occurred. I was able to get to know various congregation members, they follow me on Facebook now, so it was very interesting.

I got to learn about them, they got to learn a little bit about me and they wished me well at the end of my internship. And we talked via Facebook every now and again, and I still communicate with pastor Dewey Williams, I saw him the other day. And so, that was the big thing that I thought that I would miss out on ministerial wise. Now, selfishly now, the selfish part that I knew I was going to miss, and I wondered how it would benefit me was the preaching moments. Because I do look at seminary as actual training, it's education and everything, but I look at grad school as training for the vocation in which you are going into.

 

EAT:

Oh, yeah.

 

GLB:

So I think about this training very seriously and that was a major disappointment because I thought I said, I won't be able to preach to a live audience, and I hadn't done that before at the particular moment. So we ended up preaching via the virtual Zooms and things of that nature. And even at that, God did move, God definitely moved for the message, I thank God for the messages that he gave me. I was able to preach twice, well, actually three times.

 

EAT:

Oh, wow.

 

GLB:

Yeah. And I was with another individual, Sean Lipscomb and he was able to pray when we both were blessed by this particular internship. So even though I didn't get what I wanted, I received what I needed though.

 

EAT:

That's an amazing way to look at it. And it's such a different experience preaching virtually than it is preaching to a congregation, to a live congregation. But then again, as you were saying, the Holy Spirit is still moving. I absolutely think the Holy spirit moves when two or more gathered in his name, he is there, whether it is through virtual channels or face-to-face.

 

GLB:

Absolutely.

 

EAT:

Yeah. And so did you develop any tactics or tips for preaching in front of a camera? Did you have a certain way of fitting? Did you have to drink, I don't know, a hot latte or something? What were some of your tips for virtual preaching?

 

GLB:

Some of my tips for virtual preaching. So let's pick up the aesthetics, right? I'm a dark skinned black man, if you are a dark skinned black person, or if you are a dark skin anything, if you have a white background, do not wear a white shirt. Because you just look like a floating head. Thankfully, I saw that before because I would check the camera an hour and a half before I would have to go on preach. So for one of my preaching moments, I had a nice white sweater and it was a really nice sweater, it’s a Ralph Lauren sweater and everything. And I was all myself on the camera via Zoom, and I looked like a floating head, because the background was also white. So do not match the shirt with the background in which you are at because you will look a floating head, and I think that might be the case for anybody, it doesn't necessarily have to be that you're dark skin or anything, but it could be anybody, but I definitely had to change my shirt quickly.

 

EAT:

You're telling the other worship leader like, can we switch things around? I need to change my shirt.

GLB:

Yes. I had to change my shirt quickly. Another tip is, let's say if you're going to be in a swivel chair, make sure you sit still, that you're not swiveling around. And I this one, let me tell you, I like to swivel, I just like moving, I'm a hands guy, my hands are moving and things of that nature. Dr. James Forbes got on me about my hand movement, like put your hand in your pocket and preach when, he was teaching a bridging course, just to get me used to not being so animated with my hands.

 

EAT:

Yeah.

 

GLB:

So things like that. Also, do not put yourself very close to the camera because your head becomes enormous. Give yourself some space from the camera, and other than that, just preach the word of God, preach the message that you've received.

 

 

EAT:

Yeah, honestly, that's the most important part after everything else, we could talk about aesthetics all day, but that's the most important part.

 

GLB:

Absolutely.

 

EAT:

I love that. I think that everybody has their own tips, especially. And I think that, again, trying to glean ounces of positivity and pedagogy from this pandemic, I think that we're all much more used to a blogging style of preaching. And how did the congregation react to having to go online? Was it a difficult transition for them community-wise or simply technology-wise?

 

GLB:

So I would say, no. And this comes in handy, I come from a church that's pretty technically advanced in New Jersey, with Change Church under Darius Daniels, and we were very technically advance. So I was able to bring a lot of that experience to my internship, and we really hit the ground running on the virtual space. Of course, there were hiccups here and there and things that needed to be fine-tuned, but they actually did very, very well with the transition. The only thing I would say was, knowing how to turn in everybody's mic was a very important thing.

 

EAT:

It's always somebody. Somebody forgets it and their dog is snoring in the background or something like that.

 

GLB:

Yeah. Absolutely. Or they think because their camera's off, that their mic automatically went off, it's like, no. We hear sound in the background, we hear you.

 

EAT:

We're joined with Shawn Klein.

 

Shawn Klein:

Yeah. So I'm a third year M.Div., I am graduating in May of 2021, coming up here soon and I'm very excited about that. I feel called to pastoral ministry in the United Methodist Church. I plan on going back to Florida at some point, but more immediately I will be moving out to Knoxville to support my fiancé and soon to be wife, I feel like that is a part of my calling right now too. So that's where I am.

 

EAT:

Being a supportive spouse is absolutely a calling Shawn, and so I'm so excited to hear that that chapter of your life is opening up and congratulations on your engagement, we're all so excited for you. And when are you getting married?

SK:

We're getting married in December of 2021, and we already have our venue booked and all of that, we're very excited. Yeah. I've had a ton of experience in fielded, my first placement was a pre-enrollment fielded placement in Oriental UMC on the East coast of North Carolina. My second placement was at Warren Willis United Methodist Conference Center, which was in Leesburg, Florida. My third placement was in Southern Alamance Cooperative Parish in Alamance County. My fourth placement, which was my first placement that spanned entirely through the COVID pandemic was at Long's Chapel UMC in Waynesville, and I am currently serving as an intern at a nonprofit as my fifth placement called Durham Congregations In Action.

 

EAT:

Wow Shawn, so you have had a long and varied experience with internships through Duke Divinity School. You've had parishes, you've done a camp and a nonprofit here in Durham, several different parishes throughout, before and after COVID-19, that's a lot of varying experience. And I'm just curious, before COVID-19 hits, so pre-March, 2020, what do you remember as being some of the biggest lessons and highlights from your experience working in person through the office of field education?

 

SK:

I would say that the biggest thing that working in the office, I feel that has taught me, especially with my in-person placements, was the ability to enter into a community and leave a community, and do both of those things well. I had, like you said, a bunch of different kinds of placements, but each of them were their own distinct communities. And the opportunity to go to Oriental United Methodist Church, be presented in front of the church as their field ed intern for the summer, and then grow relationships with those people, and then for that time to end, for me to have to say goodbye and leave that community knowing it would go on without me, that was a really important part of the experience. With COVID, I didn't really get to do that quite as much.

 

EAT:

Yeah. Will you tell us a little more about that?

 

SK:

Yeah. So I'm thinking, like you said, COVID hit in March of 2020, that's when things really shut down, and I was serving at Southern Alamance Cooperative Parish, a community that I've been a part of for months and months at that point, with people whom I've grown to care for and grown fond of, people who were very kind. And so I got to enter into that community, and I got to enter into that community well, but I didn't really get to say goodbye to them.

And so, that was difficult. And then when I served at Long's Chapel UMC, there were plenty of amazing parts of that experience but the opportunity to really be a part of that community, especially because this idea of an online internship was so new, it was really elusive, it was difficult to really feel I had joined that community in a meaningful way, and in that way, said goodbye to that community in a meaningful way, just because of the nature of everything being online.

 

EAT:

Yeah. It's talking to so many clergy people and seminarians alike, community is really the key term that everybody really clings to, as part of the job of ministry, the vocation of ministry, but also is a huge center of frustration and fear of the unknown and fear of a loss of that community when going online. I want to understand a little bit of, what was it for you right at the beginning of the pandemic, you're serving this church in person and now you have to switch online and everyone's watching the news, we can see the cases rising and nothing is in stone. What were some things that worried you about serving in ministry in the pandemic, and what aspects of ministry were you worried about losing?

 

SK:

Yeah. One of the things that really stood out to me, and I didn't even think of too much as a concern prior to COVID really hitting, was that the ability to meet the needs of the congregants, the unique needs of the congregants. Like I said, this happened at Southern Alamance Cooperative parish, which is about 40 minutes west of Durham. And in that place, people don't really have internet, those communities were older but on top of that, they were very rural.

And so even if they had access to internet, which it was shoddy at best, and so we started off trying to do worship via teleconference, which was a beautiful, beautiful mess, is the best way I can describe it. And that really is what stood out to me the most, is as we were struggling to meet the unique needs of our congregations all across the state of North Carolina, all across the country and all over the world, we're then struggling to meet the unique needs of their people as well.

And it was hard, in order to meet those needs, you really have to know the communities that you're a part of, you really have to know the ways in which they communicate, the ways in which they are filled, because if you don't know those things, the worship that you do end up putting together doesn't really mean anything. And so that was definitely the hardest part, I think for me. And then on top of that, I knew that this community would go on beyond my time there, and I was okay with that, that's part of what you sign up for in that field education placement but like I said, I didn't really get to say goodbye well.

I actually remember in April thinking to myself, because we had no idea how long any of this was going to last, whether it was going to be two weeks or a year or a year and a half, we had no idea. And I remember thinking to myself, I may not have an opportunity to say goodbye to these people, one week we were all together and a little cautious and we didn't do our weekly communion because we wanted to make sure that nobody was getting sick, and then the next week, everything had shut down. And that was so fast, and I had no idea how to say goodbye, and I can't even really say that I did say goodbye well just because of the way in which things moved, it was difficult.

 

 

 

EAT:

It must have stung and hurt even more so because of that inability to really say goodbye in person and connect personally with people. I think that a lot of clergy members who have switched the vocational roles during this time, and also many other interns who have gone on to different internships, can really connect with that, with the question of how do I say goodbye, and also how do I say hello to internships that you start during a pandemic. And so you said that you served, was it Long Memorial?

 

SK:

Long's Chapel, United Methodist Church.

 

EAT:

Long's Chapel, United Methodist Church. So this was your placement directly after, and this was completely online, correct?

 

SK:

It was. I have one opportunity to go out and be with that community in person because I was driving through Waynesville, North Carolina on my way back from spending some time with my fiancé, and so I had an opportunity to stop by and help feed some of the people who are struggling with housing security out in that direction, and that was really cool, but it was the one time that I even got the opportunity to meet my supervisor in person.

 

EAT:

The one and only time.

 

SK:

Yeah.

 

EAT:

It's funny how elusive another person can seem if don't really know how tall they are or what kind of shoes they like to wear.

 

SK:

Yeah, I know.

 

 

EAT:

Well, so in order to preserve and flourish this community which is so central to parish ministry, what were some steps that you took and the church took during this virtual worship and virtual internship in order to foster community?

 

SK:

Yeah. One of the things I think really helped, I did miss the opportunity to go and spend long hours with congregations and to meet them all on a Sunday morning and to shake hands, but specifically for the COVID-19 pandemic, I found that one of the things that was really helpful was the notion that less was more. If I were to join a congregation-wide Zoom call with Long's Chapel United Methodist church, I was just a face IN that Zoom call.

 

SK:

I didn't get to have conversations with individuals, I didn't get to know who these people were, it would just be me looking at a screen with a hundred other faces, but what I found is that when I was in those smaller groups of people, building relationships with individuals became easier. And so while that was a congregation of, if I remember correctly, over 400 or 500 people, I really only built relationships with eight or nine people who attended that church.

And while that seems like I surpassed a low bar, those relationships were meaningful. They were actually good relationships in which I knew how the people were doing, in which I got to speak to them about what was going on in their lives. And so, I didn't get the chance to go and stand in front of a congregation or preach or do any of those things, but I did get a chance to meet some of the people, to really have relationships with those folks that I got the chance to talk to, and that was meaning.

 

EAT:

Thanks for listening to Divcast, be sure to subscribe to our feed available anywhere you find podcasts. You can send us questions or comments by emailing Divcast@div.duke.edu. Our executive producer is Morgan Hendrix, sound design by Brandon Holmes, editing help provided by Kinsley Whitworth, research and media support for this episode was by Brooklynne Reardon, M.Div. 2022. Special thanks to regular host, Todd Maberry for letting me take over yet another episode. We always end with a, Div, did you know? A unique factoid, which you may or may not have known about Duke Divinity School. Did you know that our Theology, Medicine, and Culture Program has been hosting a series of online seminars in response to COVID-19? You can watch them at the TMC section of the Divinity School website. Thanks for listening to the Divcast.