Skip to content

The Race Course: Episode 4, Critical Race Theory

University 101, The Invention and Consequences of Race, has been going for the better part of a semester, and it’s time to face the topic of the day: Critical Race Theory. The class learns what CRT is and what it isn’t; addresses “Space Traders”; and learns that Brown v. Board of Education is a lot more complex than people usually understand. Links to material in this episode include an audio reading of “Space Traders,” a video adaptation, and the story itself.

 

TRANSCRIPT

EPISODE 4

ACTUALITY
211019-000CRT1
1:40
“I was going to show you some commentary from individuals speaking at school boards. And then I decided since we’re still in the pandemic, that a bit of humor might be better. So just to underscore the point that a lot of these people who are criticizing critical race theory have no clue as to what they are talking about, I borrowed this clip from the Daily Show.”

TRACK
That’s Trina Jones, from the Duke Law School, where they ought to know about Critical Race Theory, since it’s a movement developed by legal scholars. She plays the video.

ACTUALITY

0:55-1:27
And yet the more conservatives talk about CRT, the more you start to wonder: has anyone even wikipedia’d this thing? Critical race theory is a religion of secularism and guilt. – Critical race theory is the denial of critical thinking. – Critical race theory is a device designed to capture white guilt. – It is about working to change and overthrow infrastructure. – An ideology that threatens to overturn the advances of human civilization over the last 500 years.

TRACK
If you’re going to talk about race in the United States, you’re going to have to talk about Critical Race Theory. This course is University 101: The Invention and Consequences of Race, so they’re going to talk about it.

MUSIC UP THEN UNDER

TRACK
Hi. I’m Scott Huler, and you’re listening to The Race Course, a series of The Devils Share, the podcast of Duke Magazine. We’ve followed along with the University 101, so we get to listen in. And after playing the video about CRT, Jones does what a law professor does: she explains it.

ACTUALITY
211019-000CRT1
4:45
critical race theory was a movement among scholars that began in the late 1970s, early 1980s in law schools, among law school students, and scholars, and basically they were setting forth a framework for examining the ways in which race, racism and power are interrelated and woven into the fabric of US society. Because it began in the legal academy it focuses on law in the way of which law and legal institutions have perpetuated some racial inequality.

TRACK

Now Jones shares a couple competing origin stories, but they all include two things: scholar Derrick Bell and student activism — at Harvard, or Berkeley, or some other law school. She shares one story, of Harvard students requesting a replacement to teach Bell’s course on race when Bell left for the University of Oregon.

ACTUALITY
211019-000CRT1
5:51
And they were told, and I’ve been told this by people who were present at the time, that they can have either an excellent white teacher, or an unidentified, mediocre black one. The students were offended. And they created what’s called what they called an alternative course, attracting 200 law students. And they invited 12 professors from across the country to come in and deliver lectures on race and racism

TRACK
The other origin stories differ in specifics, but the key: it’s always Bell, and it’s always students. And since this entire course was a factual

ACTUALITY
4:45
… framework for examining the ways in which race, racism and power are interrelated and woven into the fabric of US society…

TRACK
… nobody needed to ask whether CRT was reasonable or worth studying.

That’s important to emphasize. In the class of a hundred or so, nobody pushed back against critical race theory. At this point in the class, pushing back against it would have been almost laughable.

The first half of the course had, academically and with evidence, demonstrated the reality of that interrelation between racism and power. So nobody needed to ask whether CRT was … trying to overturn 500 years of western civilization. Instead, Jones dug into what it means.

In this case that didn’t mean academic papers. Instead, she had the students read Space Traders, a 1992 story written by Derrick Bell himself, in which alien spaceships come to Earth and … well, let’s let a TV dramatization of the story explain it:

ACTUALITY/CLIP:
Space Traders Video
YOUTUBE 3:12-4:27
“We’re space traders, bearing exquisite gifts … that will restore your nation to its former glory; gold, precious metals; machines renew rivers air; cold fusion, safe, cheap, inexhuastible
… in return, all we ask in return is the delivery to our vessels five days from now … every child, woman and man in your nation with at least 2500 melanin in their skin … put more simply, in trade for solving all your most pressing domestic catastrophes we are asking for every person in your country that you would classify as black
Are you kidding?
No, we are not….”

TRACK
Bell’s story pulls no punches and seems both historical and prescient: his story of promising white people to restore the nation to its former glory at the cost of its black people was published in 1992, and the choice of the aliens to use the voice of Ronald Reagan was conscious.

And again: none of the discussion about CRT needed to defend it. Systemic racism, by this point in the course, was proven. Jones used Bell’s story to show the different ways of addressing or at least discussing it. When she asked the kids to group together to share their responses, they got it.

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
6:50
I think if this situation was presented as like a list of facts, and then they just at the end, the society decided to go with the plan, we’re not going to learn very much from that, other than the fact that oh, that’s a super racist country, but we don’t relate to it. However, with it being presented through that story, you start to see the ways in which they manifested themselves in the way that the racist tendencies showed. And it allows us to gain a perspective that we wouldn’t have gained if we had just been looking at facts or stats.

TRACK
Another kid made a great observation:

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
7:43
one thing that I picked up was how sort of progressive policies are framed in terms of white interests? That that was something that that was I guess what does that reveal is that things are still framed in a way that is more important to the white interest.

8:25
Yeah, I think another theme was like the connection between like racism and capitalism, but like the big business meetings, I found it interesting that like, they were on the side of like, let’s keep black people in America because it made them like because they could exploit them more. Which was more profitable. So that really like illuminated that for me.

TRACK
That’s exactly right. Here’s a scene from the show:

ACTUALITY
Space Traders Video
4:53
Maybe this day’s gonna go down in history … sounds like a hell of a reelection platform…
But, well, welfare rolls would be cut 40 percent
TRACK
And if you don’t think that made the point strongly enough, the story goes on

ACTUALITY
Space Traders Video
5:54
I don’t believe what i’m hearing … doesn’t anybody see a down side to this?
Absolutely right — white guilt
Our military

TRACK
Nice. But entirely in keeping with what the students were learning in the course. By the way, our website has links to both this television adaption, an audio reading of Space Traders, and the story itself.

As for how the story shakes out — whether white Americans, given the chance to trade their Black fellow citizens for unlimited riches and energy and a magically clean planet — we’ll let you guess.

Jones, of course, asked the hard question.

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
13:56
let’s start with the first question. How do you think citizens will vote today? Why and why not? And I was talking to one of the groups and they said this might be different whether the vote is public, or private, right? So let’s start with a group in the back and make that observation on you. Think you would vote, why not?

TRACK
The students were not shy.

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
16:41
we thought that when you’re looking at the first question of if citizens would vote, you said that today, they would probably be likely to agree with something like that. And then we kind of talked about how it was okay, like things like this, and concepts of taking groups of people and kind of taking them away was seen as acceptable, or like a lot of people just kind of allowed that to happen.

TRACK
In fact, in some ways they didn’t see the story as particularly fictional.

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
17:36
That’s what the prison industrial complex looks like, right now. It was like taking away like, black men, especially from their families.

TRACK
Professor Jones did not disagree, noting that people have been saying the same thing since Bell published the story

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
17:47
Yeah, one of the criticisms of space trader that was made was, one commentator said that Professor Vale if you’re not so taken up with your stories, you would see the black folks are being removed in great numbers, not to some other planets, but to the cemetery. And to build upon your observation, you make the argument to carceral facilities, right.

TRACK
At least a few voices expressed optimism

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
19:34
Student: I just I think it’s our current political climate. Social life a little closer to like social uprisings was matter and things like that. I think you’re garnering a lot more support than perhaps people had back. Was that 1990

Jones: So you think that people have the edge To be more educated as a result of BLM, some of the mass protests last summer following the death of epic killing the murder of George Floyd, and the killing of breonna Taylor on arbery. And the conversations around that. Yeah, I

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
24:43
So there there are expressions of optimism, basically the same times of change, right? We’re not where we were in the 17th 18th 19th. And even the 20th century, right. This is a different moment in time people have been educated as a result of what happened Last summer, and there are different sources of information as a result of social media race. So the vote might be different.

TRACK
But not too much optimism.

ACTUALITY
211019-001spacetradersdiscussion
25:11
I just disagree because a lot of the more liberal movements like climate change, feminism, all these different things, you know, closing the wage gap all have white people and white women at the forefront. And so I don’t think that they would be more inclusive in terms of African Americans to voting yes, like he was claiming because a lot of these movements still put white people at the forefront,

TRACK
As another student said,

ACTUALITY
211019-002 BronwvBoard etc.
0:59
I feel like when they’re actually given the decision to choose between those other liberal decisions, like climate change, for African Americans, they’re definitely going to choose all the money to fix the other problems, because African Americans haven’t been the forefront of those problems to begin with. So like, why would they start?

TRACK
And another

ACTUALITY
211019-002 BronwvBoard etc.
2:57
I live in a really, really rural area. So a lot of the people around me own farms, work on farms, etc. And I know for a fact that they would, in a second vote to better crop yields, rather than like, say, black people, because given the fact that it is a really rural area, it is a very bad area as well. And even people who are also existed as minorities, would most likely vote in the interests of their own people, rather than black people, considering that black people wouldn’t be able to vote in this instance. Because people are inherently selfish. And as much as that sucks, it is often the truth that people would vote for their own interests rather than the interests of others. They would, and they would justify, like in the story I was talking about, they would justify saying, Oh, well, we don’t know, if these aliens are bad, maybe they’ll take you to a better place, maybe this is going to be all beneficial. And they would say, Well, given the cost benefit analysis, like if they’re gonna save the rest of the world, we’re gonna make this sacrifice with one group, it’s fine, like they’re gonna justify it. And no matter what, like people are going to be selfish, and people are going to look out for their interests.

TRACK
And again: the point of Space Traders was to demonstrate that Critical Race Theory isn’t just a notion: it’s how things work.

ACTUALITY
211019-002 BronwvBoard etc.
8:45
I did this discussion, which is based traders, and the reading of space traders, give you a vehicle for discussing a really tough topic, which is the genocide and removal of people of color in the interest of other people.

TRACK
The technological limitations of the classroom never stopped getting in the way of discussions, so I’ll repeat that: Space Traders gave the class an opportunity to discuss the ongoing genocide and removal of people of color in the interest of other people.

Jones next took the class into the Brown v. Board of Education cases — the first one, which overturned the “separate but equal” language of Plessy v. Ferguson, but also the second one, in which the court introduced the phrase, “with all deliberate speed,” in essence removing any deadline or court oversight from subsequent processes.

ACTUALITY
211019-002 BrownvBoard etc.
32:29
What’s really interesting about this is when the US Supreme Court generally finds that there’s been a violation of the constitutional right, the court generally mandates in effect, an immediate, right, but in Brown II comments commentators argue that the court was willing to wait. And so what happened after Brown is that it took decades before any meaningful desegregation of public schools occurred, right. And even after we started seeing some desegregation of public schools, that didn’t last for very long,
31:57
all deliberate speed was evidence of the Supreme Court’s willingness to sacrifice the rights of blacks to protect the interests of whites.

TRACK
And then Jones did the teaching thing, the academic thing: she asked the students whether Bell had made his case.

ACTUALITY
211019-002 BronwvBoard etc.
33:23
are you persuaded by Derrick bells, interest convergence theory, and to some extent, we talked about this when we’re talking about space traders. And if you were, if you were engaged in activism today, to counter some of the problems that you perceive, right, in our society, how might you use this theory to devise an effective strategy?

TRACK
The students were quick to respond

ACTUALITY
211019-002 BronwvBoard etc.
34:51
I find it to be persuasive and I was really surprised by this take on brown. Just because like as we saw in the space trader story to like white interests are always going to prevail. But I actually have a question for you in that. What was the reaction of this theory for like, in terms of politics of respectability, and like, gradualism over like radical, like more radical actions? Because I think it could be easily, it could easily justify like, like policy proposals that center like white interest, right? In an appeal to get like, more racially equitable outcomes.

TRACK
The discussion carries on, looking at intersectionality and other aspects, but she finishes by summarizing:

ACTUALITY
211019-002BrownvBoard etc.
8:01
This is critical race theory, right? Critical Race Theory isn’t telling you [???] things. it is asking questions

211019-004METOO
21:36
It’s about the conversation, right? It’s about [equipping?] you with tools and techniques, right? To engage in a conversation about it issues of race is one of the most difficult issues that people encounter in this particular society. Critical Race Theory is not being taught in elementary schools, and middle schools, or in high school being taught at the university level. And at the graduate level, so we hear people making claims about critical race theory, polluting the minds of young people, right and making them think badly about themselves. That is, in fact, a lie. So thank you for your time, and I’m gonna let go.

[applause]

MUSIC UNDER

TRACK
That applause was common from the students. By this point, nearing the end of the term, the students had grown used to the way the class worked, and the professors, a Murderers’ Row of Duke scholars on race and policy, had learned to spend the last half of their class period in discussion rather than lecture, stalking the class like Oprah

ACTUALITY UNDER, then UP, then UNDER
211019-002BrownvBoard etc.
43:43
… alignment with wealth, necessarily, but it’s the psychological damage of whiteness. And I want to get back to the question, which is really, really interesting. So you think that there’s something to the interest convergence theory, but why tapping into it appealing to the self interest of white, right? How do you meet your objectives? Essentially, right. If you find this theory, compelling, right, you’ve got to deal with some of the potential negative effects.

UP
Getting my steps in today.

BACK UNDER
One possible approach to making sure that white interests aren’t centered is taking a break….

TRACK
and doing their best to overcome the technology drawbacks. But as the conversations in the class heated up, so did those after class, as more and more students stayed after to engage with the professors.

ACTUALITY
211102-006
0:37 UP then UNDER
fabulous questions, I have to say like it’s been with the pandemic, it’s been such a while since we’ve been in actual classrooms, UP

and this was such an energizing session, you all are sharp, and I want all of you to come to public policy.

I think we were definitely feeding off of yours energy. So I was wondering if you would entertain a hypothetical, because I’m just curious. So when I was reading about the GI Bill, UNDER

and how it’s heralded as this kind of landmark piece of public policy and such robust federal social investment, I was thinking about present day politics. And I feel

TRACK
In their impromptu discussion sessions after class, the students loved the way the course worked as something of a survey to introduce them not just to topics about race but to the professors studying it at Duke, as then-senior Elizabeth Loschiavo said.

ACTUALITY
211026-005Group2
00;37
Yeah, I’m really enjoying the course. I think the speakers are so freakin impressive. And I’m enjoying the fact that we’re getting to see like, race and racism from a diff like a bunch of different like disciplines. So we’ve seen it from like religion, politics, law, which is really cool.

TRACK
Gus Gress would like to see those multiple perspectives more starkly contrasted

ACTUALITY
211026-005Group2
3:26
one of the things the professor’s because we have four, technically, we have four professors, and one of the things they talked about on the first day of classes how, in crafting the course, they have disagreements with one another about race and racism and how not all academics or people or people of color, see eye to eye on race and racism. And I think, well, you made a really good point that we’ve seen lots of different disciplines, I think we totally have, and that’s super cool. We haven’t seen like, direct and because we have a different guest speaker each time. And they have the whole time pretty much. We haven’t seen too many, like different perspectives between our professors at the same time on like, how they would tackle different issues of racism.
211026-005Group2
4:41
as of right now, I think it’s kind of had to be up to us to make those connections. It’ll be like, I’ll be hearing something and a guest lecturer and think back like, oh, the woman who was here four weeks ago, said something different about that. I see kind of variation, but we don’t really have time to like it. reckoned with that and walk away with like, concrete solutions of what to do or what to think or something to think about when we read.

TRACK
Skyler Hughes loved the Space Traders conversation:

ACTUALITY
211026-005Group2
5:33
I thought that discussion was really interesting because it kind of mirrors what’s already happening in present day society. When I was reading the story, like there was no doubt in my mind how it would go in terms of oh, if White Americans have this opportunity to fix all their other problems, in exchange for black Americans. Just look at history, like black people were considered like three fifths of a human like, it wasn’t really going to be a surprise to me how the story ended up going, because it’s like from the beginning. Other movements like the environmentalist movement, LGBTQ movements, the feminist movement have all even though they’re supposed to be inclusive of black people, black people have been pushed to the back of those. And black people are never prioritized and American necessarily so I had no doubt in my mind that that would have been the way the story ended up.

TRACK
Freshman Eliza Moore found the discussions that had begun to emerge within the class helped and surprised — her.

ACTUALITY
211026-005Group2
7:00
I was on the same kind of page of Skyler where I was like, there’s no doubt in my mind how this would play out. But then hearing other students that said, Well, what about this sounds like you know what, actually, that’s a point that I had not considered when I was doing my own readings or from the lectures, and it felt like getting to hear dissenting opinions about certain things or different perspectives about other things kind of makes you reinforce or make you reconsider why you think things the way you do and why you’re that’s one part of the reason we’re in the course is to reconsider the way we think about race and racism in America. And the only way we can do that is not only our own readings and our own thoughts, but to learn from others around us and learn about their experiences and their viewpoints. And kind of understand why someone might disagree with something that I think is totally right, but getting to take that opportunity to learn from them. And I think that’s why the discussion was so powerful, even though I know with discussion, there is that fear of saying the wrong thing, or offending somebody. But I think if we, being that we are already University, and that we are scholarly students, we are here to learn your academics, we are fan of fans of learning, I think that we should be able to have an open and honest conversation that’s structured around this idea of gaining more knowledge and not tearing each other down. If we’re speaking solely for the purpose of understanding other viewpoints, I think that’s a really good reason in way that we should be having more discussion.

TRACK
And they all agreed with Loschiavo: Addressing Critical Race Theory head on was a course highlight.

ACTUALITY
211026-005Group2
11:20
critical race theory is like this buzzword right used by like the conservative, right, as something that is like to be demonized or villainized, as part of like, you know, anti academia, anti science, etc. But I think like, it was very, I like, did not know what it was I had heard the word. But I think one of the, like, powerful things is that like at it’s in, it’s like simplest definition, and it is literally just taking a critical look at like race relations in America through a context of history. And so I think that was really powerful. I also didn’t know it came out of law, which was like, very interesting to me. I had no idea.

MUSIC UP then UNDER

TRACK
Next time on The Race Course, the last few classes and some final thoughts from the students.

The Race Course is a series of The Devils’ Share, a podcast from Duke Magazine.

MUSIC OUT